The Rise of the Alt Right
#1
Since the 2008 recession, we've seen a sharp rise in the popularity of Alt Right and white nationalism in Western politics. The ascension of Donald Trump and the Brexit both signify a strong momentum behind these ideologies.

What do you think is the cause of the rapid ascent of the alt-right? I mentioned the 2008 crisis, but that was perhaps more of a catalyst (imo). Where does an ideology guided by populism, nativism, and neoreactionary sentiment lead? How have the politics in the West become so polarized?
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#2
Edgy teenagers on 4-chan actually grew up and are voting adults now.

I say that in jest, but the internet has a bigger effect on our generation politically than many like to admit.
 
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#3
where has there been a sharp rise in *white nationalism* in politics since 2008?

anyway the current goings on of the far right are incredibly interesting.  much more interesting and active than the left.  there are lots of vocabulary problems in discussing the broad "alternative right" movement that has been growing for the last several years, mainly on the internet.  the "alt right" is a sub-phenomenon and new, largely a reaction to donald trump's campaign, largely influenced by 4chan style posting, best thought of as the right-wing counterpoint to the left's internet social justice types, who also are a large and visible group but don't represent the entire radical left. the "alt right" would be very distinct from the neoreactionaries.

i don't know how much of a role the 2008 crash can be said to have played. the larger alternative/radical right wing movement existed online beforehand and it doesn't seem to me it got much of a boost immediately or in the few years following 2008. the real explosion of popularity that i imagine this thread is referring to basically evolved entirely with the trump campaign.

in the US the real right wing reaction that came out of the 2008 crash was the tea party movement which would be very distinct from the "alt right", much more libertarian-influenced (the "alt right" and general alternative right movement it quickly grew out of are more ambivalent about capitalism and focused more on culture and social issues than economics) and was largely astro-turfed by business interests. obama can also be blamed for the tea party movement by being unwilling or unable to provide real solutions to the crisis and ensuing recession.

anyway there is a lot to say about this issue. it's hard to say anything specifically because the thread is too vague. what specifically are you referring to as the "alt right": racist trump supporters on twitter, the european new right nationalist parties, the american 'tea party' such as it still exists, etc?  the 'neoreactionaries' are in any event very distinct from all these trends, and actually insignificantly small and irrelevant. but for some reason dylan matthews chose to give them and curtis yarvin the majority of coverage in his popular article on the alt right a couple months ago.
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#4
You're completely missing the rise of far right nationalist parties in Europe over the last decade
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#5
i cant tell what you mean by that post.
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#6
What I'm trying to say is, I think you're missing the intrinsic link here between neoreactionies and the alt-right. I think reactionary sentiment is central to the alt-right, thus the obsession with getting over "PC culture" and things like transgender rights. 

I also think you're really downplaying the link between white nationalism and the far right in general. The rise of the far right in Europe (a la the UKIP) can be attributed to the refugee crisis. Similarly, nativism constitutes a large part of Donald Trump's platfOrm.
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#7
it makes little sense to think of "white nationalism" in a european context because most european countries are overwhelmingly white. in the US there is no sizeable or relevant white nationalist movement. trump is certainly a nativist, which is a perfectly reasonable position -- should a country's primary concern be with the well being of those who are already citizens? most people would agree with this and nativism doesn't equate to white nationalism since not only white people are born in america.

there is some filiation between the general alt right and neoreaction but they're very distinct. it wouldn't be correct to say that alt right thought is guided by neoreaction. neoreactionaries are unapologetic elitists while alt-righters are populists, the specific neoreactionary movement has a strong techno-elitist disposition while the alt-righters tend to have a lot of disdain for techno-elites. the alt right can in a meaningful sense be called reactionary due to the general support for traditional gender roles, belief in racial inequalities among other things but neoreaction is a specific movement that is economically libertarian, anti-welfare state, politically elitist -- all those things alt righters are not.
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#8
(07-03-2016, 06:06 PM)God Wrote: it makes little sense to think of "white nationalism" in a european context because most european countries are overwhelmingly white.

What
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#9
what can white nationalism mean if your country is over 90% white? it's a pointless designation. it can have a meaning in african colonial states where the white minority attempted to impose its rule over a black majority with the state in its control, it can have a meaning in the US where the white population is around 65% and perhaps some fringe movements want to create a separate nation just for while people. what sense can it have in italy or finland or denmark?
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#10
Are you seriously arguing that racism can't be a political force when against a minority? :| Are you thinking of white separatism?
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#11
how about you give me your definition of white nationalism. is it any nationalism by white people? is an italian nationalist politician necessarily a white nationalist in the sense you've used the term?
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#12
You're all way off, the rise of the alt-right, at least in Europe, is due to the destabilisation of Iraq and the advent of the Arab Spring, ie the biggest refugee crisis we've faced in decades. Trump is capitalising on growing nationalist/xenophobic sentiment. Cause and effect, but the other way round.
Quote:Well, I open my eyes and I see things. I've seen spirits moving through the walls. I've seen a vortex coming through the wall. I've seen amorphous little balls of light bouncing all around in the front yard through the window. I've seen giant bugs on the floor. I was in a hotel room in Amarillo, Texas, and all I remember is standing on the bed and seeing the whole wall in front of me filled with lights that were [makes popping sound] popping like popcorn out of the wall. Then I'll wake up and I go "Wow, I was standing on my bed and staring at this wall."
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#13
2008 financial crisis, growing disenfranchisement with regressive leftists all trying to outleft each other, and euroscepticism and anti-globalisation are all relevant contributing factors as well.
Quote:Well, I open my eyes and I see things. I've seen spirits moving through the walls. I've seen a vortex coming through the wall. I've seen amorphous little balls of light bouncing all around in the front yard through the window. I've seen giant bugs on the floor. I was in a hotel room in Amarillo, Texas, and all I remember is standing on the bed and seeing the whole wall in front of me filled with lights that were [makes popping sound] popping like popcorn out of the wall. Then I'll wake up and I go "Wow, I was standing on my bed and staring at this wall."
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#14
I wrote an in-depth email to my grandfather a few weeks ago surmising my thoughts on the events, I'll post it in a few minutes, currently need to get a subway before I die of starvation.
Quote:Well, I open my eyes and I see things. I've seen spirits moving through the walls. I've seen a vortex coming through the wall. I've seen amorphous little balls of light bouncing all around in the front yard through the window. I've seen giant bugs on the floor. I was in a hotel room in Amarillo, Texas, and all I remember is standing on the bed and seeing the whole wall in front of me filled with lights that were [makes popping sound] popping like popcorn out of the wall. Then I'll wake up and I go "Wow, I was standing on my bed and staring at this wall."
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#15
Also, neoreactionists are fucking idiots but Mencius Moldbug is probably one of the greatest contemporary political theorists.
Quote:Well, I open my eyes and I see things. I've seen spirits moving through the walls. I've seen a vortex coming through the wall. I've seen amorphous little balls of light bouncing all around in the front yard through the window. I've seen giant bugs on the floor. I was in a hotel room in Amarillo, Texas, and all I remember is standing on the bed and seeing the whole wall in front of me filled with lights that were [makes popping sound] popping like popcorn out of the wall. Then I'll wake up and I go "Wow, I was standing on my bed and staring at this wall."
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#16
(07-03-2016, 06:36 PM)God Wrote: how about you give me your definition of white nationalism.  is it any nationalism by white people?  is an italian nationalist politician necessarily a white nationalist in the sense you've used the term?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_nationalism
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#17
"White nationalism is an ideology that advocates a racial definition of national identity."

there has not been a sharp increase of this in western politics.
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#18
Uh, yes, there has http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/03...ca-google/
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#19
i dont have any idea what that link is supposed to prove. white nationalism as defined in the link you provide isn't in any sense a political force in the west.
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#20
(07-03-2016, 07:31 PM)Slam Ander Wrote: Uh, yes, there has http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/03...ca-google/

did you even read this article solly

Quote:this kind of data can’t in and of itself account for an uptick in racist hatred across America

which makes sense - its an analysis of search trends. i sometimes think you google talking points and post the first link thats even vaguely related
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#21
Hmm... You're right, I can't find any other statistical trends
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#22
This is the aforementioned email:

No doubt these are very worrying and turbulent political times we are living in. Canada and the US being economically entwined has lead to the American Elections being one of the forefront long-term conversation runners this year among my friends.

I have - or, up until recently, had - my own doubts pertaining to the doubts of everyone else in relation to Trump. For the last few months I have harboured the idea that he is using xenophobic or climategate or anti-immigrant rhetoric to gain voters, without necessarily believing in said rhetoric. He doesn't have to believe in these promised policies, he just needs to acquire their votes. Quoth Machiavelli: the ends justify the means. As soon as he takes office, he will commit to an ideological turnaround.

Now, having researched more into his character and finding that a lot of his negative qualities were actually very present and persistent prior to running for president (a very long time prior to his running for president), I am not so sure, and regardless of whether or not Congress shuts down his more extreme proposed policies (which, without a doubt, they will) it is a very worrying indicator of not only the state of America, but also of the current mind-set of the progressive west as a whole. Because if Trump gets elected, it means a majority count of voters out of two hundred and fifty million people may not have necessarily agreed with all he said, but they identified as most leaning towards his views.

Ever since the Arab Spring of 2011, various democratic and progressive values have been contested like never before. It is interesting to observe just how fragile some of these ideals have turned out to be in the face of a struggle to integrate. Indeed, the Austrian, Swedish and Danish developments are not a good sign, but I am surprised you left out Poland's right-wing and conservative Law and Justice Party, the UKIP and Marine Le Pen's Front National. I read an interesting article in the Guardian last week which said that this French party is currently taking in 30% in approval polls in the run-up to next year's presidential election. Then there is also the Neo-Nazi Golden Dawn in Greece, which I don't even want to go into but is another prime indicator of rising anti-immigrant feeling within the EU.

Three articles I thought were pretty informative in relation to this matter can be found here if you're interested in further reading:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree...ntegration
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree...ry-from-eu
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ma...n-the-rise

I do not believe we can look back to last year and say whether or not Merkel made a 'good' or a 'bad' choice when it came to enacting what might as well have been a European mandate for accepting the flow of refugees from the middle east. It is obvious she was faced with an impossible choice, but only one answer was truly in line with the democratic values and ideals upon which the EU was built, and that was to allow for the inflow of refugees. It is probably hyperbolic to consider this the seminal or catalytic moment which lead to the eventual collapse of the EU, despite the current hysteria surrounding the Brexit referendum, and the aforementioned rise of the far-right parties... but on an inter-governmental basis, we have to account for what all of this will mean for us in the short term. Will certain countries attempt to leave the EU? Is the end of the Schengen Agreement in sight? (Hopefully not, considering how much a benefactor that is for European trade and travel.) What does it mean for Europe when 33% of the MEP are made up for people from the far-right? How is it going to affect future EU policy and legislation? More to the point - and I'm not necessarily sure if I agree with the idea of the rise of the far-right being equated with the fascist governments of the 1930s - but is the election of all of these parties going to lead to more fear, more hysteria, more incited hatred against an underclass who have had to leave their homes because they had no other option? If we are looking retrospectively, it is imperative to remember just how easy it is to take advantage of a class of people when they are economically, sociologically and politically frustrated; you just give them something to channel their anger towards, and they will do your bidding for you. The cliched maxim of history repeating itself rings true in perpetual fashion...

Of course, none of these new far-right parties, and especially not Trump (who said we have to attack ISIS with an intensity not yet utilised) are advocating for the end of military interventionism (or fuel outsourcing, depending on who's side of the narrative you're on). One wonders if perhaps this abstract war on terror in all of its self-perpetuating glory has entered a new epoch, so to speak, in which justification for entering or staying in foreign territory no longer rests on political language such as 'pacification' or 'weapons of mass destruction' but simply the inciting of hatred for certain races... Thus the oilflow continues... This one is more of a tangent but I came across two very good books on propaganda earlier this week, Edward Barnays' Propaganda (1928) and Jacques Ellul's Propaganda (1962). Barnays was actually the nephew of Sigmund Freud, and he used Freudian psychoanalytic principles to determine what exactly propaganda was and how it worked. Basically the reiterated message of both books is that in order to enact controversial public policy, the government has to justify it to the public first, only they teach the public that it's not controversial but necessary, even a good idea...

Re: Ireland, I'm not too worried, if only because I've made a very simple correlation in my mind between rate of intake of refugees and public outrage... From my last reading, Ireland has only been instructed to take in five thousand refugees so it's not that big of an impact for us. That said, I feel as if Ireland is probably very susceptible to growing right-wing movements and ideology in Europe just judging from how insular a country it has always struck me to be. But for now we appear to be avoiding the brunt of what's occurring in Europe central.

In short, very worrying times, and it's difficult to say where exactly it's going to go. With the refugee crisis only ever worsening, terrorist attacks by the Islamic State in Central Europe becoming more and more common - almost... expected, as if no longer a deviation from the norm... - retaliating airstrikes by NATO leading to an endless cycle of self-perpetuating violence, it is unfortunate to acknowledge that this is probably the start of a new political era. As the problem gets worse, more and more far-right parties all over Europe, all over the west, will probably gain more and more of a following. The next few months and years will be interesting to observe at least. I have no theories as to how to fix it at this point either.

Hope I provided you with something to mull over,

Lord
Quote:Well, I open my eyes and I see things. I've seen spirits moving through the walls. I've seen a vortex coming through the wall. I've seen amorphous little balls of light bouncing all around in the front yard through the window. I've seen giant bugs on the floor. I was in a hotel room in Amarillo, Texas, and all I remember is standing on the bed and seeing the whole wall in front of me filled with lights that were [makes popping sound] popping like popcorn out of the wall. Then I'll wake up and I go "Wow, I was standing on my bed and staring at this wall."
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#23
ok thats it im getting rid of wysiwyg
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#24
Yeah that was incredibly irritating. I'm finding it difficult to revert my post font back to default with my iPad as well.
Quote:Well, I open my eyes and I see things. I've seen spirits moving through the walls. I've seen a vortex coming through the wall. I've seen amorphous little balls of light bouncing all around in the front yard through the window. I've seen giant bugs on the floor. I was in a hotel room in Amarillo, Texas, and all I remember is standing on the bed and seeing the whole wall in front of me filled with lights that were [makes popping sound] popping like popcorn out of the wall. Then I'll wake up and I go "Wow, I was standing on my bed and staring at this wall."
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#25
done. edit your post and re-copypaste your thing.
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