Gun Control
#51
(07-01-2016, 04:09 PM)Ascaris Wrote: your statistical interpretations are entirely conjecture (as are kings). there are a gazillion things that affect homicide rates and trying to explain it using solely one or two pieces of legislation that were passed years/decades ago is terrible analysis. if you can find legitimate research that controls for whatever variables need to be controlled for, it would actually make your argument convincing.

Fair enough.  Undecided

I think that stances on the gun debate are held primarily on the morality that revolves around guns and self defense, considering how difficult it is to draw any real conclusions. Course, that can be applied to a whole lot of 2-sided scenarios.

I don't exactly have a background in social science, nor do I fully understand what affects homicide rates, but as long as there isn't anything supporting the idea that gun control is effective, I've no reason to change my position.

Ho-hum.
Discount Jontron
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#52
(07-01-2016, 04:09 PM)Ascaris Wrote: your statistical interpretations are entirely conjecture (as are kings). there are a gazillion things that affect homicide rates and trying to explain it using solely one or two pieces of legislation that were passed years/decades ago is terrible analysis. if you can find legitimate research that controls for whatever variables need to be controlled for, it would actually make your argument convincing.


well, when you ban a bunch of guns and restrict others and gun crime is notably reduced and mass shootings are reduced to one in 20 years then yeah, that isn't conjecture.
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#53
If you're talking about homicide statistics, I posted those in direct response to Tex's claim that homicides in Britain have been on a massive, constant increase since 96.
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#54
(07-01-2016, 06:42 PM)King Wrote: If you're talking about homicide statistics, I posted those in direct response to Tex's claim that homicides in Britain have been on a massive, constant increase since 96.

(07-01-2016, 08:19 AM)Slam Ander Wrote: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.I...cations=GB He's not wrong
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#55
(07-01-2016, 06:36 PM)King Wrote: when you ban a bunch of guns and restrict others and gun crime is notably reduced and mass shootings are reduced to one in 20 years then yeah, that isn't conjecture.

i have no horse in this race but at least according to the links tex posted this claim doesnt seem to be entirely true
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#56
I'm sorry Ascaris I'm pretty confused as to why you've reposted something Solly shared that outright shows a massive and consistent drop in homicides since around 2002 which I also posted in response to the claim that homicides have consistently increased since 96.
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#57
(07-01-2016, 06:50 PM)Ascaris Wrote:
(07-01-2016, 06:36 PM)King Wrote: when you ban a bunch of guns and restrict others and gun crime is notably reduced and mass shootings are reduced to one in 20 years then yeah, that isn't conjecture.

i have no horse in this race but at least according to the links tex posted this claim doesnt seem to be entirely true

feel free to to even a basic level of research yourself into British gun crime or maybe even look at Solly's link you reposted.
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#58
You cannot have a 'not entirely true' situation when it comes to 'how many mass shootings in Britain since the 96 gun reforms'. Its not a fucking variable, either there were more mad shootings or less, and there were less.
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#59
http://www.citizensreportuk.org/reports/...ce-uk.html

Or maybe check the link that I posted on page 2 that shows a noted drop in gun related homicides
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#60
But he's arguing that people just switched to knives, instead of using guns to kill people. A dubious claim, perhaps, but one you're not really addressing.
Cool
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#61
(07-01-2016, 06:53 PM)King Wrote: I'm sorry Ascaris I'm pretty confused as to why you've reposted something Solly shared that outright shows a massive and consistent drop in homicides since around 2002 which I also posted in response to the claim that homicides have consistently increased since 96.

because youre nitpicking at semantics. tex's said 'homicides have consistently increased since 96' (a statement which he actually retracted) but his point was that the handgun ban didnt actually seem to affect the homicide rate in any way which calls into question its usefulness as legislation.
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#62
(07-01-2016, 06:54 PM)King Wrote: feel free to to even a basic level of research yourself into British gun crime or maybe even look at Solly's link you reposted.

lol idc, im just pointing out why you guys are debating poorly
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#63
(07-01-2016, 06:59 PM)Slam Ander Wrote: But he's arguing that people just switched to knives, instead of using guns to kill people. A dubious claim, perhaps,  but one you're not really addressing.

knife crime did increase, but it was already an existing and more accessible method of homicide than firearms and didn't see a sharp increase until the early 2000s. There's nothing to solidly link the two.

furthermore, the point of gun control isn't to end homicide, its to reduce firearm related homicide. 1 guy with a knife is dangerous sure, but is he anywhere near as dangerous as a loon in a school with a semi auto and 150 rounds?
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#64
(07-01-2016, 07:00 PM)Ascaris Wrote:
(07-01-2016, 06:53 PM)King Wrote: I'm sorry Ascaris I'm pretty confused as to why you've reposted something Solly shared that outright shows a massive and consistent drop in homicides since around 2002 which I also posted in response to the claim that homicides have consistently increased since 96.

because youre nitpicking at semantics. tex's said 'homicides have consistently increased since 96' (a statement which he actually retracted) but his point was that the handgun ban didnt actually seem to affect the homicide rate in any way which calls into question its usefulness as legislation.

a five year increase in a period where homicides were already increasing isn't indicative of shit, especially when for the following 14 years homicides dropped rapidly.
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